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| pboro | ah, a bug in JDBC driver... | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| pboro | I should start counting them, since I have found over 10 of them in last two years :D | 08:01 |
| Alex| | find 20 and you get one free ;) | 08:04 |
| pboro | ahaha | 08:05 |
| pboro | INGRESDATE is real fun... it can have an "empty" value | 08:07 |
| pboro | like... tstamp INGRESDATE NOT NULL DEFAULT ' ' | 08:07 |
| pboro | if you insert a row to such table without a value for tstamp, the value is not null but neither it's a valid date/time... and the jdbc driver fails with it :) | 08:08 |
| Alex| | rather sounds like a bug in the dbms and a missing error handling in the driver | 08:08 |
| pboro | I have no idea why it is possible to set INGRESDATE to ' ' | 08:09 |
| pboro | what the heck is meaning of that :D | 08:09 |
| pboro | 2.6 permits it, 9.1 permits it, 9.2 permits it... | 08:09 |
| Alex| | I'd guess the date is more or less stored as a string internally | 08:10 |
| Alex| | and the validation misses the whitespace.... something like that | 08:11 |
| pboro | yeah... the real problem is... that our legacy db contains a ton of these DEFAULT ' ' for INGRESDATEs | 08:12 |
| pboro | oh well, I'll build a test case and send it to support | 08:13 |
| pboro | Hmm! iijdbc 3.2.4 fails, 3.4.7 works | 08:14 |
| Alex| | ah :) | 08:14 |
| pboro | but I can't use 3.4.7 because I have filed a bug in it two weeks ago about LOB fetching (which doesn't work at all) | 08:14 |
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| satanmalin | hi guys | 16:22 |
| pboro | hi | 16:23 |
| satanmalin | im gonna test easyingres on windows 7 | 16:23 |
| satanmalin | hi pboro | 16:23 |
| satanmalin | really fine the blog you sent | 16:23 |
| satanmalin | My... is free | 16:24 |
| satanmalin | My... is free | 16:24 |
| satanmalin | :p | 16:24 |
| pboro | It does have a point, but MySQL does have it's place too | 16:24 |
| pboro | its even | 16:24 |
| satanmalin | now Mysql = Oracle | 16:26 |
| satanmalin | so Mysql = dead | 16:27 |
| satanmalin | ;-) | 16:27 |
| pboro | I don't think MySQL will die in near future... but it might be developed by other ppl than Oracle's | 16:29 |
| satanmalin | pboro | 16:31 |
| satanmalin | do you know a bombr01 | 16:31 |
| satanmalin | ? | 16:32 |
| satanmalin | no youre right pboro | 16:32 |
| satanmalin | Mysql will not die in the future its already dead | 16:32 |
| pboro | Nope, bombr01 doesn't ring any bells... | 16:33 |
| satanmalin | bombr01 answer me on the forum | 16:33 |
| pboro | considering that MySQL has far more users than Ingres does, I would not consider it dead :D | 16:33 |
| satanmalin | he said he liked the v0.1 and that he loves the v1.0 but i dont know who he is | 16:33 |
| satanmalin | yep but ingres | 16:34 |
| satanmalin | is not the same as mysal | 16:34 |
| satanmalin | mysql is for web site | 16:34 |
| satanmalin | ingres is for a real databse | 16:34 |
| satanmalin | database | 16:34 |
| satanmalin | Mysql ~= access | 16:34 |
| satanmalin | ingres ~=oracle | 16:35 |
| satanmalin | and | 16:35 |
| grantc | i would not be so hard on mysql | 16:35 |
| satanmalin | Ingres > oracle | 16:35 |
| pboro | me neither | 16:35 |
| pboro | ingres < oracle if you ask me | 16:35 |
| grantc | mysql is very good at web apps | 16:35 |
| pboro | there's a lot of things ingres is lacking because of CA | 16:35 |
| satanmalin | yep but only at web apps | 16:35 |
| satanmalin | DONT TROLL ON INGRES | 16:35 |
| pboro | satanmalin, in some terms, Ingres sucks at web apps since Ingres doesn't have MVCC | 16:36 |
| satanmalin | MVCC ? | 16:36 |
| pboro | optimistic locking in theory | 16:36 |
| satanmalin | i will do my cartman | 16:36 |
| grantc | ingres < oracle for cost sure :P | 16:36 |
| satanmalin | respect my authority | 16:36 |
| pboro | grantc, that's true :) | 16:36 |
| pboro | grantc, and should be, since you get less ;) | 16:36 |
| grantc | hmm | 16:36 |
| satanmalin | grantc do you know a bombr01 ? on the forum ? | 16:37 |
| pboro | depends on the deal tho' | 16:37 |
| grantc | bombr01 is bruno | 16:37 |
| satanmalin | oki | 16:37 |
| satanmalin | good news | 16:37 |
| satanmalin | know bruno is on the forum ;-) | 16:37 |
| grantc | pboro, withdefault sent me a link today regarding the big O ... let me find it | 16:37 |
| pboro | grantc, please, share :) | 16:38 |
| satanmalin | what is MVCC | 16:38 |
| grantc | http://www.zazzle.co.uk/18_out_20_tshirt-235825098548687651 | 16:38 |
| grantc | multi version concurrency control - it allows you to have multiple versions of the same row | 16:38 |
| pboro | satanmalin, multiversioning concurrency control... it's a thing that's implemented by all other dbmses and they use it for their locking needs | 16:39 |
| grantc | reduces locking | 16:39 |
| grantc | where _all other dbmes_ is not that many :) | 16:39 |
| grantc | but sure the big engines do | 16:39 |
| satanmalin | and why ingres doesnt have this ? | 16:39 |
| pboro | yeah, mvcc is optimistic in nature... nothing is locked, instead after the transaction finished there's a check whether there was collisions | 16:39 |
| pboro | grantc, postgresql, mssql, oracle, mysql/innodb, ... :) | 16:40 |
| grantc | innodb? fair enough | 16:40 |
| grantc | pgsql i knew about | 16:40 |
| pboro | satanmalin, it's on the roadmap, for Release 4 or 5 I guess | 16:41 |
| satanmalin | so ingres willbe the best | 16:41 |
| pboro | satanmalin, you can blame CA for many things that are missing from Ingres :) | 16:41 |
| satanmalin | CA sucks | 16:41 |
| satanmalin | Ingres rules | 16:41 |
| grantc | pboro, not sure about that... | 16:41 |
| pboro | grantc, about CA? | 16:42 |
| grantc | its a popular myth that CA destroyed Ingres but before it was bought the previous handlers were burning cash like a Web2.0 startup | 16:42 |
| pboro | oh, okay | 16:42 |
| grantc | sure CA could have invested more money and not spent $2bn on a certain OOdb... | 16:43 |
| pboro | :) | 16:43 |
| DarylM | Burning cash is bad, but as a very long time customer, I still think CA hurt Ingres significantly. | 16:43 |
| DarylM | The good news was the local CA people in Chicagoland were awesome | 16:44 |
| pboro | satanmalin, the good thing is that Ingres is getting better | 16:44 |
| satanmalin | thats a good news for you ;- | 16:44 |
| pboro | grantc, nice shirt btw :D | 16:44 |
| satanmalin | ;-) | 16:44 |
| DarylM | nice shirt?!? | 16:45 |
| pboro | satanmalin, I could switch to EnterpriseDB anything with my web apps, but old legacy ABFs are a pain in my ass | 16:45 |
| pboro | s/anything/anytime/ | 16:45 |
| satanmalin | ABFsv ??' | 16:46 |
| pboro | You don't know ABF? :) | 16:47 |
| satanmalin | nope | 16:47 |
| satanmalin | $) | 16:47 |
| SlimeyPete | lucky | 16:48 |
| pboro | Well, if I could choose... I would not know either :D | 16:48 |
| SlimeyPete | 60% of our system runs on ABF | 16:48 |
| pboro | SlimeyPete, about the same here | 16:48 |
| satanmalin | and what is ABF ? | 16:49 |
| SlimeyPete | Application By Forms | 16:49 |
| grantc | application by forms - its the text application system ingres has | 16:50 |
| satanmalin | ah oki | 16:50 |
| SlimeyPete | it's the old-fashioned terminal-based Ingres application style | 16:50 |
| satanmalin | sorry | 16:50 |
| grantc | if you run isql dbname you will get and idea... ABF allows developers to write whole applications using a similar interface (known as FRS) | 16:50 |
| pboro | I don't mean I dislike Ingres or anything. But there are other options too and since I have to consider the features, stability, expenses... I have to be realistic about the options and think what is best for us. Currently Ingres is fine. We can't ditch the ABFs and on the other hand, the features that Ingres lack, are on the roadmap :) | 16:51 |
| satanmalin | ill make you laugh | 16:52 |
| satanmalin | im trying to dl easyingres | 16:52 |
| satanmalin | thats stupid | 16:53 |
| grantc | pboro, that's good to hear | 16:53 |
| pboro | grantc, if I had lost my hope with it, I would not be posting 5-10 bug reports a month to make better :D | 16:53 |
| satanmalin | beacause im so lazy to find up the soft | 16:53 |
| grantc | at the end of the day its about resources - we cannot compete with the 3k devs O has | 16:53 |
| pboro | grantc, yup | 16:53 |
| pboro | grantc, that's completely understandable :) and as long as Ingres does business on fair principles, I like it :) | 16:54 |
| grantc | :) | 16:54 |
| SlimeyPete | I think we're going to move to Oracle in the long run, tbh (not my decision). The sad thing is that we've never tried a version of Ingres past 2.6. We're about to try to roll out 9.2 over the coming months but even if it performs like a demon I think the decision to move has already been finalised. | 16:55 |
| DarylM | Better get out the company checkbook for that move | 16:55 |
| SlimeyPete | though that said, we have a couple of hundred thousand lines of 4GL code and not enough manpower to convert it all into PHP in a timely fashion, so the move may never happen ;) | 16:55 |
| DarylM | 'cause it will cost an arm and a leg..... | 16:55 |
| pboro | SlimeyPete, sounds like a weird decision | 16:55 |
| SlimeyPete | DarylM: indeed | 16:55 |
| satanmalin | To move to Oracle ?? | 16:55 |
| SlimeyPete | the higher-ups don't seem to mind that | 16:55 |
| grantc | SlimeyPete, i guess you get a discount for being a "school"? | 16:56 |
| satanmalin | SlimeyPete: TO MOVE TO ORACLE ? | 16:56 |
| SlimeyPete | probably, but I think the last quote we got was about 50k or so | 16:56 |
| pboro | satanmalin, calm down, we already know you work for Ingres ;) | 16:56 |
| grantc | for how many cores/cpus? | 16:56 |
| satanmalin | what do you mean by tomove to oracle ? | 16:56 |
| satanmalin | im not working for ingres | 16:57 |
| satanmalin | im a comunity member | 16:57 |
| grantc | change databases, use oracle instead of ingres | 16:57 |
| SlimeyPete | I don't really know what the reasoning is. TBH from my personal POV it's a good thing because Oracle experience will look good on my CV. | 16:57 |
| pboro | satanmalin, ahh... ok | 16:57 |
| grantc | :) | 16:57 |
| pboro | SlimeyPete, what kind of "school" are you? | 16:57 |
| satanmalin | euh SlimeyPete is an ingres worker or customer ? | 16:58 |
| SlimeyPete | a university | 16:58 |
| pboro | satanmalin, I'm surprised actually. Big hand for making EasyIngres :) | 16:58 |
| pboro | SlimeyPete, ah... we're too | 16:58 |
| SlimeyPete | satanmalin: I'm an Ingres worker. Ingres is moving over to Oracle, didn't you get the memo? | 16:58 |
| satanmalin | im not an ingres worker | 16:58 |
| satanmalin | im a communitu foggy | 16:58 |
| satanmalin | froggy | 16:59 |
| satanmalin | Oracle is buying ingres ? | 16:59 |
| satanmalin | why using oracle instead of Ingres ? | 16:59 |
| pboro | Oracle could easily buy Ingres if it's just about the money :) | 16:59 |
| satanmalin | and pboro if you are interested in making easyingres on linux with me ;-) | 17:00 |
| grantc | satanmalin, ignore SlimeyPete Oracle is not buying Ingres | 17:01 |
| grantc | although stranger things have happened :) | 17:01 |
| SlimeyPete | sorry, I was just joking :) | 17:01 |
| satanmalin | Ima froggy | 17:01 |
| grantc | british humour... | 17:01 |
| satanmalin | Im a froggy | 17:01 |
| satanmalin | i thought it was real | 17:01 |
| satanmalin | even if it is true | 17:02 |
| satanmalin | i dont think that you will tell me | 17:02 |
| satanmalin | it is | 17:02 |
| satanmalin | ;-) | 17:02 |
| pboro | since satanmalin joined #ingres, there have not been silent moments! | 17:02 |
| SlimeyPete | I don't know why we (a university, not Ingres) are switching to Oracle really. I guess it's just because it's got a bigger reputation in enterprise. We do definitely need to move off Ingres 2.6 & 4GL so I guess $big_boss reached for the nearest big name. | 17:02 |
| satanmalin | sorry pboro | 17:02 |
| pboro | satanmalin, naah, it's okay :) | 17:03 |
| satanmalin | the only british humour i know is mister bean , ALLO ALLO , and benny hill | 17:03 |
| satanmalin | so ... | 17:03 |
| satanmalin | ;-) | 17:03 |
| pboro | Hmm... http://www.eduserv.org.uk/licence-negotiation/agreements/software/ingres_2009/overview.aspx#Heading22 | 17:04 |
| pboro | I wonder if they have to pay only 9800 pounds for any number of cpus | 17:04 |
| * SlimeyPete wanders off home | 17:04 | |
| satanmalin | satanmalin was dying from a heart attack | 17:05 |
| satanmalin | pboro its nice to see a log with not onlynot | 17:06 |
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| satanmalin | grantc | offline is now known as grantc | 17:07 |
| satanmalin | satan malin is away | 17:07 |
| satanmalin | LOL | 17:07 |
| satanmalin | but logs make an evidence of my vad english | 17:08 |
| satanmalin | :( | 17:08 |
| pboro | "License type" "Site license"... damn, I don't we have that | 17:09 |
| pboro | why don't we... even | 17:09 |
| grantc | do you not have a national license body in finland? | 17:09 |
| pboro | we do but there's no agreement with Ingres | 17:10 |
| satanmalin | grantc they only have metal band ;-) | 17:10 |
| pboro | I guess I could tip them about it :) | 17:10 |
| grantc | it's certainly worth it although i guess you would end up going through the local reseller... | 17:11 |
| pboro | probably, and the price would still be the same... | 17:11 |
| pboro | oh well, I will not order more than 1 CPU per server in future anyway ;) | 17:12 |
| pboro | Replacing Sun Fire V880 with 4 (slow) 900 MHz CPUs with one quad-core cpu Dell server cuts costs nicely ;) | 17:13 |
| grantc | a 4/8 core box :) | 17:13 |
| satanmalin | sorry satan humour | 17:13 |
| satanmalin | :( | 17:13 |
| grantc | and there you have why Sun is losing money | 17:13 |
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| pboro | V880 is pretty old, from times when multicores were just a dream... they do sell multi core cpus nowadays, and the price is not that high either | 17:14 |
| pboro | since they do sell PC servers nowadays too | 17:15 |
| pboro | for example Fire X4250, price from $3,145.00 (http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4250/) | 17:15 |
| pboro | Not that I would buy it :) | 17:16 |
| grantc | hmm that would keep my office nice and warm | 17:19 |
| satanmalin | guys it seems that ingres doesnt run on 7 | 17:56 |
| satanmalin | indeed easyingres has only one service running the service is apache | 17:57 |
| pboro | on 7? on Windows 7? | 17:58 |
| satanmalin | yep | 18:07 |
| satanmalin | yep pboro windows 7 rc | 18:12 |
| satanmalin | (i tryed of course) | 18:40 |
| satanmalin | and doesnt work :( | 18:40 |
| satanmalin | error log | 18:50 |
| satanmalin | Failed with operating system error 3 | 18:50 |
| satanmalin | The path doesnt exist | 18:50 |
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| pboro | erh, still no 64-bit Linux version of Ingres 9.2?! | 20:19 |
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| satanmalin | i dont think so | 20:25 |
| satanmalin | havent seen it on the esd | 20:26 |
| satanmalin | or maybe its in dev | 20:26 |
| satanmalin | its under dev | 20:26 |
| satanmalin | damned damned damned easyingres doesnt work on windows 7 | 20:28 |
| satanmalin | strangely th error log show an error i have never had | 20:28 |
| DarylM | And that would be........ | 20:29 |
| pboro | do you happen to know whether 64-bit Linux version of 9.2 has planned ETA? | 20:32 |
| satanmalin | that would be what | 20:32 |
| satanmalin | ? | 20:32 |
| pboro | ETA = estimated time of access/availability | 20:33 |
| DarylM | satanmalin: what error was "strangely th error log show an error i have never had" | 20:42 |
| bonro01 | Are you editing the machine wiki page for USILRP02 ? | 21:28 |
| bonro01 | wrong window | 21:29 |
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